The crimes here were, in large part, committed in Cambodia and Columbia. Yet they were prosecuted in Canada.
Extra-territorial jurisdiction for criminal offences is rare.
Traditionally only countries asserting a right of empire could prosecute such cases -- thus the German Empire claimed a worldwide jurisdiction over offences (usually where there was no powerful State thereby offended but it's the theory we're concerned with here).
Some offences, piracy being the best example, became subject to prosecution in any country on the basis that the offenders were the enemies of all humanity. Such reasoning underlying the concept of prosecuting in any country those who have committed crimes against humanity.
The theoretical basis for prosecuting sex tourism probably rests on a similar analysis; those who abuse children are the enemies of all.
The Department of Justice backgrounder prefers to say that the offenders are Canadian and so subject to prosecution -- but that can't be right because if it was Canadians would be subject to prosecution in Canada for any foreign offence. No, the basis for extra territorial prosecution must be that child abusers are
Vancouver— The Canadian Press
A 59-year-old Canadian sex tourist who admitted to having sex with girls ranging in age from eight to 14 pleaded guilty to 15 counts involving girls in Cambodia and Colombia in May after a failed constitutional challenge to Canada's child-sex tourism law.
A Canadian man who admitted to having sex with young girls in Columbia and Cambodia has been sentenced to 11 years in prison.
A B.C. Supreme Court judge said Kenneth Klassen committed "serious" and "opportunistic" offences in delivering his sentence on 14 counts of sexual interference and one count of importing child pornography.
16 comments:
Surely a nation that actively contributes to war crime prosecution would welcome bringing the full weight of the law on the awful man. Respect to the lawyers and a spirited defense but it’s hard to even listen to their reasoning.
I approve this sentence and hope it signals a welcome change.
I can't go along with this, sorry.
In Canada, Canadian law applies. Outside Canada, it should be the laws of whatever country you are in. What if I'm engaged in a completely legal activity in another country...why should I have to worry about prosecution at home if I happen to be Canadian? How do we now tell certain ethnic groups that female circumcision and 'honor killings' aren't welcome here when we are actively foisting our own morality and social standards on other countries? Can I now drink openly in Saudi Arabia...if not, why not? I'm Canadian...why should Arab laws apply to me?
This is a terrible law, and I wish the government would be dumb enough to charge someone with some financial resources; it would be struck down immediately if challenged (ah, but that's how they operate, isn't it? Prosecute only the ones who can't fight back?).
Oh, and this has nothing to do with the original guy and his 'sex tourism'. When something is wrong, it's wrong no matter how you spin it or what result you obtain.
You both make good points -- it really comes down to whether Canada ought to exercise jurisdiction out of the country -- and I think it is justified by the defendant here being a Canadian and bringing home child porn.
We can't have it both ways. If Brenda Martin or Ahmed Said Khadr are in some foreign prison, we can't bust in there with the attitude that Canadians never commit crimes when abroad.
Canadian law should apply to Canadians. If these people wish to avoid these laws, they should renounce their citizenship and never return.
By the way: The circumcision of Canadian female children whether performed in Canada or in other countries is "Aggravated Assault", an offence under the Criminal Code of Canada.
ridenrain said...
We can't have it both ways. If Brenda Martin or Ahmed Said Khadr are in some foreign prison, we can't bust in there with the attitude that Canadians never commit crimes when abroad.
No, of course not. Commit a crime in a foreign country and you should be subject to their justice system. Not Canada's.
Canadian law should apply to Canadians. If these people wish to avoid these laws, they should renounce their citizenship and never return.
Sorry...can't agree. Different countries have different laws, sometimes for very good reasons. Should a Canadian be prosecuted for drug possession because they were photographed getting high in a cafe in Amsterdam? Should an Iranian citizen be jailed and executed when he gets home if he was seen in a Canadian gay bar?
By the way: The circumcision of Canadian female children whether performed in Canada or in other countries is "Aggravated Assault", an offence under the Criminal Code of Canada.
That's nice, but how would you prosecute it if the child never returned home? My point was how can we tell someone from another country to obey our laws and not the ones he is accustomed to, while at the same time we force our laws on people visiting *his* country? What makes our laws so superior to his? Why shouldn't he demand the right to have his laws respected in Canada the same way we are demanding that our laws be respected in his country?
It just doesn't make sense.
James C Morton said...
You both make good points -- it really comes down to whether Canada ought to exercise jurisdiction out of the country -- and I think it is justified by the defendant here being a Canadian and bringing home child porn.
Yes, but in this case they could simply have charged him with possession of child pornography, couldn't they?
What do you think, James...could a case like this (but without the imported porn) survive a serious court challenge if someone had the time and money to pursue it?
"In Canada, Canadian law applies. Outside Canada, it should be the laws of whatever country you are in."
I wonder if Morton believes that this should apply to Mr Omar khadr?
You know what bothers me? This guy gets 11 years for disgusting conduct. In the end he didn't do harm to these children that hadn't already been done before and most assuredly was done after and in a country that didn't seem to care enough to prevent it. The damage done to these children is cumulative and broadly spread among many people. So 11 years in jail and we don't appear to hear much about rehabilitation or how this guy will just become a more hardened criminal in jail. Consistency much?
In Calgary a woman kills her 14 year old daughter, and really has to put an effort into the killing, and she gets 3 years probation for manslaughter. Apparently Canadian justice thinks sexual assault in foreign countries (I wouldn't want to call it rape because that's not PC) is a more heinous crime than the deliberate killing of a Canadian teenager. The system of law in Canada continues to pile on the "disrepute".
If a Canadian goes to another country, the laws of Canada should apply if a Canadian is breaking Canadian law in a foreign country. Especially when it comes to old ugly fat men going to foreign countires to have sex with children...disgusting. For example, in Thailand there are laws regarding adults having sex with children however, the laws are not followed so it is up to Canada to prosecute Canadians who break Canadian law abroad. The world would also be a better place if corporations who go overseas to do business and do not follow the laws of home were also prosecuted...it sets an example. Some of you commenting here, leave the impression that it is okay to go abroad and do what ever.
Fred from BC...it is not a terrible law when it comes to fat ugly old men abusing children. I am all for protecting children no matter where they live. Why should Canadians visit foreign countries to have sex with children. I have been to Thailand, Cambodia and it is awful what Western men are doing to children in these countries. Make no mistake there are many men from North America who regularly make trips to especially Cambodia and Thailand to seek out children. This man by the way is not the first Canadian to be charged. Do your research.
All the lip service on human rights seems to vanish when we find people like this. This isn't smoking dope or some other harmless crime.
Just because some poor cop in some poor country would rather accept a bribe than risk his job bringing charges against some weathy Canadian art dealer, the crime still remains a crime, reguardless of where it takes place.
Anonymous said...
"In Canada, Canadian law applies. Outside Canada, it should be the laws of whatever country you are in."
I wonder if Morton believes that this should apply to Mr Omar khadr?
If that were the case, Khadr would be dead.
Anyong said...
If a Canadian goes to another country, the laws of Canada should apply if a Canadian is breaking Canadian law in a foreign country.
Why? What makes our laws more special than the laws of any other country? What if I am drinking alcohol in Saudi Arabia and get arrested...will the Canadian government leap to defend me, arguing that I should be subject to Canadian law, not Saudi Arabian law?
(because, you know, our laws are just 'better' than theirs...)
And aren't you made the least bit uncomfortable by the fact that the Canadian government seems to be saying that they have control over my actions no matter where in the world I go? Do they actually OWN me, or what? Am I a slave, now? Am I The Property of Canada?
People like you scare me.
Apparently Canadian justice thinks sexual assault in foreign countries (I wouldn't want to call it rape because that's not PC) is a more heinous crime than the deliberate killing of a Canadian teenager. The system of law in Canada continues to pile on the "disrepute".
Agreed. We need some serious overhaul of our justice system...our priorities are way out of whack.
Anyong said...
Fred from BC...it is not a terrible law when it comes to fat ugly old men abusing children. I am all for protecting children no matter where they live.
Me too. But not for abusing the law to do it.
Why should Canadians visit foreign countries to have sex with children. I have been to Thailand, Cambodia and it is awful what Western men are doing to children in these countries. Make no mistake there are many men from North America who regularly make trips to especially Cambodia and Thailand to seek out children.
Yes, it's terrible. But you do realize, I hope, that 'sex tourists' would be much more harshly dealt with in those countries than here, right? Our jails would seem like hotels to them.
This man by the way is not the first Canadian to be charged. Do your research.
Where did I say he was the first? He's about the third...and yes, I already knew that.
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