Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. Dwight D. Eisenhower
10 comments:
Anonymous
said...
A great American, a courageous man. The last great Republican President. He stood up to Hitler and Stalin, a great man who wasn't afraid to use weapons when required.
Meanwhile in the real world.. $2 billion spent for only 50% of the long guns registered and it still has no effect on crime. The trial of the murder of innocent bystander, Bailey Zaveda starts today. The man being charged has a violent past and was already under a lifetime ban against owning or possessing guns. He bought another illegal handgun that the registry does nothing to stop.
Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex and were it would lead the world. The forces under his command in WW2 liberated much of Europe and brought an end to the Nazi death camps. As president of the USA he faced down Stalin and secured the freedom of North America and Western Europe. Effective leaders of armies often loath war and war profiteering. Eisenhower was one of them.
@Ridenrain: the exceptions don't prove there's been no effect, and, sure, the long gun registry hasn't eliminated the black market on guns, esp. handguns. Who would've ever thought or claimed otherwise?
Let's look at the area it _does_ appply to, though: homicides committed with handguns.
There were an average of 89.4 homicides a a year using long guns from 1993-1997 before C-68 was implemented (varying from 79 to 82).
That dropped dramatically (30%!)from 1998-2000, when people were req'd to either get firearms licenses to use long guns or surrender them: suddenly there were just 63 (in a very tight cluster, of 62,3,4 a year) long gun homicides.
Then from 2001 forward to 2008 while the actual registry was gettting built & used, there were just 48 (47.8) a year, on ave. (ranging from 34 to 66/yr.) That's a 32% drop from the first intitial C-68 period, and a 52% drop from the three year interval preceding the Firearms Act.
Or, if we just look at an apples-to-apples comparison of the first 5 years pre-C-68 (1993-97) with the first 5 years after (2004-2008), it's an ave. of 89.4 LG homicides a yr. vs. 43.2: which is, again, 52% lower.
You call a 52% reduction for 46 fewer homicides a year (out of an ave. total of 194 firearms-related homicide deaths pre-C-68's implementation in 1998 and 178 per year since) a clear failure, because there are still homicides out there?
Are those numbers from the police chiefs? The same group of police chiefs who took $115,000 from the same company that put in the computers and software for the registry? The same registry that was way over budget because of glitches with the computers and the software? The same registry that Sheila Fraser said the Liberals were hiding the costs for?
As you said: Let's look at the area it _does_ apply to, though: homicides committed with handguns. Numbers are one thing but the regular shootings in our big urban centers is proof that the registry doesn't work to reduce crime. The people might get suckered by a media campaign but that's gone every time some hood shoots someone with an illegal handgun.
It would have been far better to have passed the mandatory jail for gun crimes than picking a fight with the rest of Canada.
The numbers are from Statistics Canada's Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics div., Policing Services Program, compiled from the Homicide Survey, which is compiled from the data from police dept's across the country each year.
And again, the fact that people still kill with handguns says _nothing_ about the efficacy of the _long_ gun registry. (in fact, why aren't you Cons calling for the abolition of the restricted weapons registry while you're at it? Oh, because they're mostly owned by city dwellers, whom you don't care two whits about.)
But on that 'kickback' allegation you just made here & have made elsewhere to impugn the integrity of the Police Chiefs: yeah, I looked into that: it derives from a Christie Blatchford article in the G&M, "Police ethics adviser quits over sponsors." (April 8, 2009)
So, a few org's made a contribution to their Police Chief's Association to buy some 'Swag' for their annual conference one year.
The LGR database's software vendor co.'s gift was: Celine Dion concert tickets for the Chiefs & their wives.
Ok, bad judgment on the Chiefs to accept such gifts, given the potential conflict of interest. (But you should see all the perks _Doctors_ get from Big Pharma & med. tech. makers each year, but that's another story.)
But you really think they've sold their soul for _Celine Dion_ tickets (uggh), and have been falsifying their testimony about its effectiveness over that, ever since -- a one-time gift worth, what, a couple hundred bucks to each chief, most of whom make on the order of $100,000 a year?
Good grief, you're an idiot, and I hope they sue you and all the other gun nuts who are spreading that allegation for defamation, like your pal Ezra.
10 comments:
A great American, a courageous man. The last great Republican President. He stood up to Hitler and Stalin, a great man who wasn't afraid to use weapons when required.
Meanwhile in the real world.. $2 billion spent for only 50% of the long guns registered and it still has no effect on crime.
The trial of the murder of innocent bystander, Bailey Zaveda starts today. The man being charged has a violent past and was already under a lifetime ban against owning or possessing guns. He bought another illegal handgun that the registry does nothing to stop.
A strange quote from a man who personally directed thousands of people to use guns & shoot rockets as SAC Europe during WWII
Eisenhower warned about the military industrial complex and were it would lead the world. The forces under his command in WW2 liberated much of Europe and brought an end to the Nazi death camps. As president of the USA he faced down Stalin and secured the freedom of North America and Western Europe. Effective leaders of armies often loath war and war profiteering. Eisenhower was one of them.
@Ridenrain: the exceptions don't prove there's been no effect, and, sure, the long gun registry hasn't eliminated the black market on guns, esp. handguns. Who would've ever thought or claimed otherwise?
Let's look at the area it _does_ appply to, though: homicides committed with handguns.
There were an average of 89.4 homicides a a year using long guns from 1993-1997 before C-68 was implemented (varying from 79 to 82).
That dropped dramatically (30%!)from 1998-2000, when people were req'd to either get firearms licenses to use long guns or surrender them: suddenly there were just 63 (in a very tight cluster, of 62,3,4 a year) long gun homicides.
Then from 2001 forward to 2008 while the actual registry was gettting built & used, there were just 48 (47.8) a year, on ave. (ranging from 34 to 66/yr.) That's a 32% drop from the first intitial C-68 period, and a 52% drop from the three year interval preceding the Firearms Act.
Or, if we just look at an apples-to-apples comparison of the first 5 years pre-C-68 (1993-97) with the first 5 years after (2004-2008), it's an ave. of 89.4 LG homicides a yr. vs. 43.2: which is, again, 52% lower.
You call a 52% reduction for 46 fewer homicides a year (out of an ave. total of 194 firearms-related homicide deaths pre-C-68's implementation in 1998 and 178 per year since) a clear failure, because there are still homicides out there?
Go back to school.
sorry, "(varying from 79 to 82)" should have read: (varying from 79 to 92).
Are those numbers from the police chiefs? The same group of police chiefs who took $115,000 from the same company that put in the computers and software for the registry? The same registry that was way over budget because of glitches with the computers and the software? The same registry that Sheila Fraser said the Liberals were hiding the costs for?
As you said: Let's look at the area it _does_ apply to, though: homicides committed with handguns. Numbers are one thing but the regular shootings in our big urban centers is proof that the registry doesn't work to reduce crime. The people might get suckered by a media campaign but that's gone every time some hood shoots someone with an illegal handgun.
It would have been far better to have passed the mandatory jail for gun crimes than picking a fight with the rest of Canada.
This quote was displayed on the Wall at the Roger Waters concert. Amazing.
The numbers are from Statistics Canada's Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics div., Policing Services Program, compiled from the Homicide Survey, which is compiled from the data from police dept's across the country each year.
And again, the fact that people still kill with handguns says _nothing_ about the efficacy of the _long_ gun registry. (in fact, why aren't you Cons calling for the abolition of the restricted weapons registry while you're at it? Oh, because they're mostly owned by city dwellers, whom you don't care two whits about.)
But on that 'kickback' allegation you just made here & have made elsewhere to impugn the integrity of the Police Chiefs: yeah, I looked into that: it derives from a Christie Blatchford article in the G&M, "Police ethics adviser quits over sponsors." (April 8, 2009)
So, a few org's made a contribution to their Police Chief's Association to buy some 'Swag' for their annual conference one year.
The LGR database's software vendor co.'s gift was: Celine Dion concert tickets for the Chiefs & their wives.
Ok, bad judgment on the Chiefs to accept such gifts, given the potential conflict of interest. (But you should see all the perks _Doctors_ get from Big Pharma & med. tech. makers each year, but that's another story.)
But you really think they've sold their soul for _Celine Dion_ tickets (uggh), and have been falsifying their testimony about its effectiveness over that, ever since -- a one-time gift worth, what, a couple hundred bucks to each chief, most of whom make on the order of $100,000 a year?
Good grief, you're an idiot, and I hope they sue you and all the other gun nuts who are spreading that allegation for defamation, like your pal Ezra.
Such hostility. No wonder your scared.
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