Listening to the last Munk debate I was struck by the irrelevance of the issue discussed.
Whether or not religion is "good" for the world says nothing about religion.
The whole point of religion is that it makes truth statements -- and if those statements are true then what difference does the effect of religion have? The reverse is also true.
Put otherwise, the truth of religion is unrelated to the good works of believers. Perhaps that is another way to see St Paul's comment, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8,9.
A religion that needs to be justified by the good works of its followers is a religion that has relinquished its claim to be justified by truth.
8 comments:
Organized religon by men has not ever been good for the world. It is a political entity and that is all.
Good works are the test of that truth. Religion asserts to have the key to morality through it's 'truth', but if it is not a force for good, are its assertion not then hollow?
Religion of itself is neither a force for good nor evil. It encompasses both.
Mr Morton,
I couldn't agree more. Good works are beside the point.
wsam
Shorter Morton: I'll make up whatever argument I want about an invisible, immeasurable G_d... No proof needed...
I'm a socially conservative atheist. My source of morality is based on the premise that if something is unhealthy for the individual or for society it should be forbidden and discouraged.
I don't advocate a police state in order outlaw pornography, but I think it is up to the individual to refrain from indulging in it.
So I only answer to myself. And I am far more cruel than the Christian God, because the latter at least forgives "sins". I don't forgive my own "sins" (I am my own worst critic), but I try to be a better person.
Is religion a force of good in the world? I acknowledge that religion was a force that provided humans of ancient history to have strong social organizational tools. If it weren't for slavery for example, humanity would not have been able to progress much beyond primitive tribes.
Liberal atheists tend to focus much of their hatred on Christianity while ignoring the atrocities committed by other religious practitioners.
Is religion evil? Then one must ask: is slavery evil? Morality is largely a majority concept (though I think the majority can be wrong on many things). We only had the privilege of abolishing slavery because industrialization was able to supplant it, more or less.
Plato and the other Greek philosophers of his time had the luxury to philosophize in a society where 90% of the population were slaves.
I agree. The truthfullness and the net effect on society (positive vs. negative) are completely unrelated. A lot of times I have attempted a debate on religious assertions the response I have received has related to how much good a religion does for the world and how bad a world we would live in if there wasnt any religion.
I was at the debate and I don't think Mr. Blair did a very good job. He missed a lot of good arguments that come to mind without much thought. He also fell into politician-speak quite often, was a waste of air time. But everyone was there to see Hitch anyway, and he put on a good show, so it all worked out fine.
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