I won't argue the work issue anymore -- I have dealt with it before. But as for this being Marxist? It's a quotation from Beowulf dealing with fate. It is difficult to think of a less Marxist worldview than that of Beowulf.
Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon culture roughly corresponding to fate or personal destiny.
The cognate term in Old Norse is urðr, with a similar meaning, but also personalized as one of the Norns, Urðr (anglicized as Urd) and appearing in the name of the holy well Urðarbrunnr in Norse mythology. The concept corresponding to "fate, doom, fortunes" in Old Norse is Ørlǫg.
This is not Marxist except, I suppose, in the sense that history of peoples (and individuals) is governed by something beyond their control (so will to power or triumph of will is arrogant nonsense). But if that is all that Marxism means then almost all world religions (perhaps excluding Buddism) are Marxist.
First, I would like to congratulate you on your attempt to become an MP. Your campaign experience will help you next time should you choose to run again or help someone else.
Next, your Icelandic seems pretty good. Then again, mine's not.
Finally, based on Anonymous's comment, I did not know that you have been an unemployed lawyer and instructor all these years since you graduated from law school. I wish you well in your future employment endeavours. I also wish Anonymous well in his/her employment prospects.
The concept of "fate" is more recent that Beowulf. Look to The Song of Roland borders on the absurd. Roland is an idiot, he leads his men to pointless death in direct contradiction of his express orders, and in doing so sacrifices a large chunk of Charlemagne's army.
What's worse, throughout the work he is urged by his friends to retreat or call reinforcements, but refuses to do so.
To a 13th century noble, it's a tale of chivalry and heroism, to a modern reader it's alien and futile.
Similarly with the Icelandic sagas, their concerns were not ours, and the sagas aren't actually really novels even though that's now how we approach them.
Homer got mentioned upthread. The Illiad is full of chaps who come into the narrative, we are told their name, their lineage, several paragraphs are spent describing their homeland and the bloodline they are descended from. Then, before they get a single line of dialogue they take a spear to the head in a single sentence and die, having achieved nothing beyond being present.
To a modern reader, it's slightly baffling, actually a bit dull in those passages. To a contemporary, I suspect it was essential detail, since without those details (which seem so irrelevant to a character who after all has no narrative function to us beyond suffering a quick death) they would not have known who they were.
Njal is notable in large part for the fact that many people within the saga have what we would now call precognitive powers. The difference between being wise and being psychic does not seem to exist. It's a naturalistic tale, but a naturalistic tale in which it is taken as read that some people can tell the future accurately and without possibility of error.
But a key theme is that one's fate is inescapable, beyond one's own power to control. All one may do is choose how to live in the time one has, and how to approach the fate that is already written out in advance. Many people in the saga can tell the future, but nobody can change it. I suspect that was a message with a resonance for a contemporary reader/listener engaging with the work that we struggle to access in the same way. We are taught that what we do with our lives give them meaning, that we have control over our own destinies. They believed no such thing, which in some ways makes it more alien than it appears.
"Homer got mentioned upthread". No he wasn't. But he should have been. All this stuff about Iceland is nonsense. It was Homer who properly enuciated the concept of Fate. The concept of fate we still recognize today. Indeed, even though there is a veneer of Christian thought in most modern polemics there can be no doubt that Fate -- the Gods laugh -- rests at the base of modern Western thought. The German thinkers of the C19th knew this and Hitler and his merry band of thugs merely tried to hold back the tide like Cnut. But all the succeeded in doing was tidying up the ragged borders of Europe and opening the gates of hell for a few years.
I am not sure where you are getting your info, but good topic. I needs to spend some time learning more or understanding more. Thanks for magnificent information I was looking for this info for my mission.
13 comments:
Typical Marxist junk. Let fate take care of everything. As if you ever worked a day in your life.
Anon,
I won't argue the work issue anymore -- I have dealt with it before. But as for this being Marxist? It's a quotation from Beowulf dealing with fate. It is difficult to think of a less Marxist worldview than that of Beowulf.
Wyrd is a concept in Anglo-Saxon culture roughly corresponding to fate or personal destiny.
The cognate term in Old Norse is urðr, with a similar meaning, but also personalized as one of the Norns, Urðr (anglicized as Urd) and appearing in the name of the holy well Urðarbrunnr in Norse mythology. The concept corresponding to "fate, doom, fortunes" in Old Norse is Ørlǫg.
This is not Marxist except, I suppose, in the sense that history of peoples (and individuals) is governed by something beyond their control (so will to power or triumph of will is arrogant nonsense). But if that is all that Marxism means then almost all world religions (perhaps excluding Buddism) are Marxist.
Your position doesn't hold water.
First, I would like to congratulate you on your attempt to become an MP. Your campaign experience will help you next time should you choose to run again or help someone else.
Next, your Icelandic seems pretty good. Then again, mine's not.
Finally, based on Anonymous's comment, I did not know that you have been an unemployed lawyer and instructor all these years since you graduated from law school. I wish you well in your future employment endeavours. I also wish Anonymous well in his/her employment prospects.
Less politics. More bears. I don't really care if the bear is red or blue (or green or orange).
Da Bearss!
The concept of "fate" is more recent that Beowulf.
Look to The Song of Roland borders on the absurd. Roland is an idiot, he leads his men to pointless death in direct contradiction of his express orders, and in doing so sacrifices a large chunk of Charlemagne's army.
What's worse, throughout the work he is urged by his friends to retreat or call reinforcements, but refuses to do so.
To a 13th century noble, it's a tale of chivalry and heroism, to a modern reader it's alien and futile.
Similarly with the Icelandic sagas, their concerns were not ours, and the sagas aren't actually really novels even though that's now how we approach them.
Homer got mentioned upthread. The Illiad is full of chaps who come into the narrative, we are told their name, their lineage, several paragraphs are spent describing their homeland and the bloodline they are descended from. Then, before they get a single line of dialogue they take a spear to the head in a single sentence and die, having achieved nothing beyond being present.
To a modern reader, it's slightly baffling, actually a bit dull in those passages. To a contemporary, I suspect it was essential detail, since without those details (which seem so irrelevant to a character who after all has no narrative function to us beyond suffering a quick death) they would not have known who they were.
Njal is notable in large part for the fact that many people within the saga have what we would now call precognitive powers. The difference between being wise and being psychic does not seem to exist. It's a naturalistic tale, but a naturalistic tale in which it is taken as read that some people can tell the future accurately and without possibility of error.
But a key theme is that one's fate is inescapable, beyond one's own power to control. All one may do is choose how to live in the time one has, and how to approach the fate that is already written out in advance. Many people in the saga can tell the future, but nobody can change it. I suspect that was a message with a resonance for a contemporary reader/listener engaging with the work that we struggle to access in the same way. We are taught that what we do with our lives give them meaning, that we have control over our own destinies. They believed no such thing, which in some ways makes it more alien than it appears.
Skinny, OshawaGensRock, thanks!!! Always need more bears!!!
"Homer got mentioned upthread". No he wasn't. But he should have been. All this stuff about Iceland is nonsense. It was Homer who properly enuciated the concept of Fate. The concept of fate we still recognize today. Indeed, even though there is a veneer of Christian thought in most modern polemics there can be no doubt that Fate -- the Gods laugh -- rests at the base of modern Western thought. The German thinkers of the C19th knew this and Hitler and his merry band of thugs merely tried to hold back the tide like Cnut. But all the succeeded in doing was tidying up the ragged borders of Europe and opening the gates of hell for a few years.
Who would think an offhand quotation from Beowulf would lead to such a discussion???
トリーバーチ トートを買って正解だという感想は必ず浮かぶでしょう、大きいサイズで中身もたっぷり物を入れても大丈夫。安くて、軽くて、そして可愛いバッグに一目惚れする人も少なくないと思います、これからの夏に大活躍！待ち遠しいトリーバーチ 新作やっと出て来ました、この嫌な梅雨の季節でも一つ楽しみがある、女性にとっての福音、梅雨に対する怒りを動力に変えて、どんどん買いましょう。
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